i bring it up as backdrop to this michigan debate. if you're a union leader there, do you want to lose all the jobs or get a job at 18, $19 an hour? >> if you're a union leader, you probably vote for fewer jobs at higher wages because you will protect your base. if you're an average michigan person, which is why this thing is probably reasonably popular there, i just want a job and willing to take it at $14.50 a job. >> last week, apple announced the same thing, they're bringing jobs back. executives said they had a duty to do it. it was their obligation to do it. >> when you do something for that reason, it's not a huge number. >>> guys, read the atlantic monthly. we had the author on. james on, come back. the suggestion in this article at least, outsourcing was a fad, a corporate fad. some businesses trying to make a quick buck over a decade. at the end of the day, it didn't work and even if it worked for a while, it doesn't work in our economy. >> saying it's a fad is a really dangerous thing to say. that's not what it was. it wasn